E10: How To Master Decision-Making and Entrepreneurship | Steven Willis
How do you transition from a completely different field into building successful capital companies?
In this episode, we explore that journey, highlighting the importance of decision-making principles, goal-setting, and learning from experience. You'll hear how early mastermind groups shaped the foundation of a capital company, turning what started as a small real estate venture into a thriving business.
📒 Show Notes and Resources 📒
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Kellen Ketchersid
Kellen is a co-founder of Stag Business Coaching, business strategist, and a systems thinker. He leverages his extensive experience in biotech and consulting to empower entrepreneurs to navigate complex challenges with strategic growth solutions.
Albert Gillispie
Albert is a serial entrepreneur, business efficiency expert and co-founder of Stag Business Coaching who has founded several multimillion-dollar companies. With expertise in optimizing operations and innovative systems, he mentors business leaders who want to unlock their business’s full potential.
🎤Steven Willis
Steven, a lifelong entrepreneur, has dedicated his career to business, founding and overseeing multiple multimillion-dollar enterprises. This extensive experience has provided him with a unique perspective on business operations.
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EPISODE 10 TRANSCRIPTION
Introduction
[00:00:00] Albert Gillispie: Welcome to the Business Growth Masterclass, where business growth is made simple. Listen as we discuss best practices to increase your profits, streamline your operations, and ultimately create healthier, more stable, and more valuable companies. Today's episode is with my good friend, Steven Willis.
[00:00:20] Albert Gillispie: Steven is a co-founder of multiple capital companies and one of the most wise and discerning people that I've ever met. Today's episode unpacks that as we talk through several things, from how he became an entrepreneur—he was basically born to be an entrepreneur and is wired that way—to how he makes decisions as an entrepreneur. One of the things that really distinguishes ultra-successful entrepreneurs is the ability to make decisions quickly, and that is one of Steven’s superpowers. We talk a lot about that in this episode, how he developed that ability, and how he has become one of the most discerning and principled entrepreneurs that I know. It is a superpower and one of the secrets to how we are successful at Stag Capital. So I think you'll get a lot out of it. Enjoy the episode.
Steven Willis’ Background and Role in the Capital Companies
[00:01:32] Albert Gillispie: All right. We are live. Welcome to the podcast, Steven Willis.
[00:01:35] Steven Willis: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:37] Albert Gillispie: You bet. I mean, you are one of my closest friends, one of my best friends, so I’ll try to be as professional as possible. But why don't you go ahead and just tell our audience—what do you do for a living?
[00:01:52] Steven Willis: So I'm co-founder with you of a few different capital companies. My main role is on the acquisition side, typically vetting deals and then taking them from underwriting to under contract to close. Once they are closed and in asset management, then I’m lead. That includes managing distributions, newsletters, updates, fielding questions, and all of that.
[00:02:24] Steven Willis: So that’s basically what I do.
[00:02:27] Albert Gillispie: What is a capital company?
[00:02:30] Steven Willis: A capital company? We raise capital for various projects. We started out focused primarily on multifamily—apartment complexes—and have since ventured into other commercial real estate and operating businesses. We've done some preferred equity for other operating businesses as well. So, while we are experts on the real estate side and manage those projects, when we venture into operating businesses, we partner with experts. And that approach has suited us well so far.
[00:03:09] Albert Gillispie: Okay. If I’m talking to 18-year-old Steven, is this what he imagined he would be doing?
[00:03:18] Steven Willis: Nope. I imagined I would be a business owner, but I didn’t imagine this. I never really saw myself going into real estate or finance, and here we are. But I had a passion for fitness and health, so I went down the personal training rabbit hole and eventually opened up a gym and an online coaching program. But no, to answer your question, I would never have imagined myself here today as 18-year-old Steven.
[00:03:53] Albert Gillispie: You hit it—you know, kind of where I wanted to go first—you already hit it. Basically, you knew you wanted to work for yourself, and your personality shows you’ve always been an entrepreneur. You’ve always been self-employed to some extent, and I’ve admired that about you. Tell me—how did you know that you always wanted to work for yourself? Where does that come from? Because you’re wired very differently than the typical person who just gets a job.
[00:04:24] Steven Willis: Yeah, it could be…
The Entrepreneurial Journey and Decision-Making Principles
[00:04:26] Steven Willis: I've thought about that. I'm not totally sure. My grandpa was kind of a serial entrepreneur—he did a bunch of different things. My dad is an entrepreneur as well. He’s a business owner; he’s in commercial paint and has done that for his whole life—close to 50 years now. So it could be a little bit of that—just what I've seen from the men in my family. But I think really, growing up and working different jobs from the age of 15, I never loved the idea of a salary. It sounded really claustrophobic to me. You know, like how I could work my tail off one month and be lazy the next month but still make the same amount of money—or vice versa. You know, if I’m adding a lot of value, working hard, and the people around me are not, and we’re all making the same money—it just didn’t sit right.
[00:05:28] Steven Willis: I’ve always liked the idea of having more agency over my time and money. Not having a ceiling on the income side, but also on the time side, being trapped by a 40-hour workweek. Being able to—like, I want to be there for all the kids’ games. I want to be there for them physically, spiritually, and emotionally.
[00:05:46] Albert Gillispie: Have you ever worked for somebody?
[00:05:48] Steven Willis: Yeah.
[00:05:48] Albert Gillispie: How'd that go?
[00:05:51] Steven Willis: Fine, for the most part. I mean, I’m a hard worker, so it wasn’t like I was a bad employee, necessarily. But I had issues—I’ve been fired from a job before. Not for being lazy, but you know, when you’re young and growing up, I was grateful to make some of the mistakes I made on someone else’s dime, from the ages of 15 to 25, for sure.
[00:06:17] Steven Willis: So...
[00:06:18] Albert Gillispie: Okay, so just kind of how you're wired. You know, I don't know if I would call you a super competitive person in the classical sense. I feel like you’re really competitive within yourself—like you always want to be better. And I know you have a lot of pursuits outside of business that I want to get into.
[00:06:44] Albert Gillispie: Yeah, let’s go there first. So yes, you do have a full-time job in the capital company, and I don’t want to get into that, but you also have a past where you were a personal trainer—that’s how we met. You were a CrossFit coach. It’s coming on—I don’t know—15 years ago. It’s been a minute. It’s been a while. But yeah, tell us a little bit about that journey because you are the fittest person I know. I know some more CrossFit elite people, but as a professional, as a dad, and as someone who has balance in their life, you’re by far the most fit person.
The Transition from Fitness to Capital Companies
[00:07:22] Albert Gillispie: I know. So, you know, tell us a little bit about that journey and where you are today. Specifically, about this journey from personal trainer at 18 to co-founder of a capital company today, right? So how did you get from there? And there’s still a lot of the fitness realm and passion that you hold today.
[00:07:47] Albert Gillispie: So, I guess, tell us how you went from personal trainer to co-founder of a capital company.
[00:07:55] Steven Willis: Yeah, I—so I’ll back up a little. I think that it appears to me, at least, that generationally, Gen X and older were kind of, “Get a job so that you can live.” You know, it doesn’t matter what you do—just find a good job with good benefits. Then there was this big shift for millennials, where we were sold this idea that you need to follow your passion. Right? And so, you know, follow your passion and make a career out of that, make a business out of that.
[00:08:34] Steven Willis: The danger there is that you could wind up super stressed out to a point where you hate your passion now. So now you don’t like your job, and you don’t even have this thing that you loved anymore. That’s a little bit of what happened with fitness for me. I chased that dream, and it led me to a point where I wasn’t passionate about it anymore. So then I just had this job that I didn’t like and it didn’t really make me much money.
[00:09:02] Steven Willis: What I learned through that is that you need to be a passionate person. You need to live with passion and purpose. You can really take that passion for excellence and self-improvement and apply it to any job. You know, you see people in all kinds of different jobs who are just blissfully happy. I don’t wake up every day insanely passionate about value-add apartments. But I am a passionate person who can apply that love of excellence and improvement to anything. That’s a point I needed to reach. When I did that, it allowed me to rekindle that passion for fitness and health without having to do anything with it other than just love it, use it to discipline my mind and body, be a good example to my family and kids, and also take that same passion and drive and apply it to my work—whatever the work is.
[00:10:15] Albert Gillispie: One of the things—I mean, and you really articulated that just now—is that you’re one of the most discerning people that I know. I feel like you’ve heard this since you were a kid—that you’re wise beyond your years. That’s so much of the role you play in our business. When it comes time to make a decision, Steven can objectively make a decision, follow the good, the bad, and the ugly, and really discern through it. Where does that come from? How do you develop that? I mean, it’s your superpower. For our listeners who struggle with making decisions—that’s one of the key characteristics of a successful entrepreneur: someone who can make decisions quickly. I feel like you don’t take that lightly—you’re not just flippantly making decisions. So how did you—first and foremost, is that something that naturally came about, or is that something you developed? And if so, how do people develop the level of discernment that you have?
[00:11:30] Steven Willis: That’s a good question. I appreciate that. I’ve always admired people who have strong principles that guide their decision-making in their lives. I’ve tried to live that way because it makes decision-making simpler. You have these principles and almost these identity pieces like, “I’m a hard worker, I’m a learner, I’m a disciplined person.”
[00:12:02] Steven Willis: So, and I have a great answer for you there, but I just... I think that knowing your principles and just not budging from those makes decision-making a lot more—not easy—but you know, because a lot of these decisions are hard. But it helps the right decision more often than not. Not that I don't make poor decisions all the time, but when it's a difficult decision, you kind of know what the right decision is.
[00:12:32] Albert Gillispie: So if you were to say that to an up-and-coming entrepreneur—like someone about to graduate from high school or college—I guess it’s about spending time really feeling good about what your principles and values are. Understanding them backward and forwards, having reasoning for them, and a foundation that supports them. Then, making decisions from then on, you’re just relying on the values and principles that you grew up with.
[00:13:03] Steven Willis: Yeah. I mean, for someone who's young and up-and-coming, there’s a lot of value in having role models and having an idea of who you want to be. It’s going to take time for you to become that person, but it doesn’t take any time at all to shift your mindset. You can say, "Okay, if I want to start getting in shape,"—this is from Atomic Habits by James Clear—you have to change your mindset and identity first. Identify as someone who says, "I’m someone who works out five days a week. I’m someone who is mindful about what I eat." Those same ideas can be applied if you’re 18 and want to own a $100 million company. You’re going to need to start thinking and acting like that person way before you get there. You’re not going to become the person you admire once you have the $100 million company. You have to become that person, and then you get the company. That’s all I got.
[00:14:13] Albert Gillispie: I like that. Okay, so role models—who are yours? I’m curious here. Who are your role models? Who does Steven want to be?
[00:14:20] Steven Willis: There are different guys throughout my life, and sometimes I just take one piece of what they’ve done, you know, or who they are. From an early age, even in high school, I sought out mentors. There were times in my family when there was more turmoil, more chaos, and I didn’t feel like I had the guidance I needed. So I sought out different pastors and mentors to grab coffee with every now and then and try to learn from. And then, gosh, books—you have—it’s not a free resource, but a $15 book can give you thousands of dollars worth of value, if not more. I’m not going to name-drop, but I think I’ve had—and it’s gone in seasons too—just different role models growing up and sought out different mentors.
[00:15:22] Steven Willis: Sorry, I’m going to continue. I heard a good quote—I don’t remember who said it—but I loved it. It was that your mentor is kind of your future self, or your role model. You can almost create this caricature of the dad you want to be, the business owner you want to be, the husband you want to be—just the man you want to be. You can make this amalgam of different people you’ve known throughout your life and seen, and you can set this person up and say, "Okay, what if this person existed? What would they do here?" I don’t remember who said that, but I liked it a lot.
[00:16:03] Albert Gillispie: I like that. There’s, I mean, a principle that we’ve talked about—having a personal board of directors, essentially, where you have these role models and mentors in every area of your life—from, you know, dad, husband, fitness, to scriptural study, to your faith journey, to investing and whatever. And it’s been fun to a degree to go along that journey with you, you know, over the last decade or so. Anyway, so, okay, we talked a little bit about the journey from basically realizing this passion that you had and, and that, you know, that flame kind of going out a little bit, and then you coming to peace with that, and kind of maturing through that and starting your career in a capital company.
[00:16:56] Albert Gillispie: So tell me a little bit about how you did that because you were a—I mean, you didn’t major in finance or anything. What was your major?
[00:17:07] Steven Willis: Exercise science. Awesome.
[00:17:09] Albert Gillispie: Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. That makes perfect sense. Like a…
[00:17:12] Steven Willis: Glove.
[00:17:13] Albert Gillispie: Yep. Yep.
Mastermind Groups, Goal Setting, and Early Real Estate Ventures
[00:17:15] Steven Willis: So how did you get into this? So, I’ll probably back up a little bit then. So in 2012, we started a mastermind group with you in it and several others.
[00:17:27] Steven Willis: And you know, that group evolved and changed as to what it was over time. There’s book club times and Bible study times and all of that. But the piece that was always there was goal setting. And so, you know, it was like show up on January 1st and say, “Here are my goals for the year,” and, you know, financially, career-wise, family, etc. Then every single week, you’d have to show up at 6:30 in the morning and report on what you did or didn’t do to move the needle on those goals.
[00:18:01] Steven Willis: And so the group started out pretty big. It was like 12 to 15 people or something like that. But you know, you start showing up, and you get tired of saying, “I didn’t do anything to work on this.” And so, you either start doing stuff, or you stop showing up. And so that’s pretty much what happened.
[00:18:21] Steven Willis: It dwindled down to a core group of guys—about six folks. And that evolved to become sort of a small business incubator of sorts where you’d show up, and, you know, I would have an idea like, “I’m going to open up a CrossFit gym. What do you guys think?” And it wasn’t that anyone knew anything about opening a gym, but it was just nice to air it out, have questions, poke holes, whatever.
[00:18:49] Steven Willis: I mean, we had various other businesses start out of that. You and Tanner flipped some houses. And then one day, y’all showed up with a deal you wanted to buy—a 16-unit townhome complex—and talked about how it was going to be great. Y’all were going to make all this money and raise money from investors.
[00:19:09] Steven Willis: And everyone in the group thought it was just a terrible idea—way too risky. Y’all had no money, no experience in real estate, and those weren’t unfounded concerns or anything like that. But I thought it was a fun idea, and I think I was getting probably a little bit crispy on the fitness side.
[00:19:26] Steven Willis: So it was interesting enough for me to raise my hand and say, “It actually sounds kind of interesting.” I had some personal training clients at the time who were wealthy. They had been with me for five, six years, and we had sort of become friends. I knew they trusted me, and I knew they’d shoot me straight.
[00:19:44] Steven Willis: And so I said, “I think that I might be able to help you guys raise the money on it.” And so, we became a partnership at that point. And that’s exactly what we did. We got the deal into a contract, put our life savings up for earnest money, and raised money from my training clients. And then we just obsessed like crazy over that deal and the business plan for the next 15 months.
[00:20:11] Steven Willis: We wound up selling it, and all the investors doubled their money. It was this moment of, “Well, that worked”? So, why don’t we see what happens if we do this with 50 units, or 100 units, or 1,000 units? And so that’s what we did. We grew it, and eventually, all of us quit our jobs.
[00:20:32] Steven Willis: I sold my gym, and this is what we do now. And yeah, what a journey.
[00:20:37] Albert Gillispie: Yeah, it seems like so long ago, you know? Some days it feels like forever, and then like it was just yesterday, other days.
Learning from Experience and Defining Roles in Business
[00:20:47] Steven Willis: Yeah. So we started that, we bought that first deal in 2016, and I sold my gym in 2018. And here we, in those early stages, we all wore every hat. It was just what needed to get done today and go do it.
[00:21:06] Albert Gillispie: Can you kind of— I mean, you were the most, you know, obviously we’ve already said this, but like, you’re the most discerning of the three of us. How did you process, or what was the process going from, "We’re all jack-of-all-trades, do whatever it takes," to now we have a little more defined roles? I mean, of course there are seasons, you know, where we just didn’t get work done, but how did you find your role and what you’re uniquely gifted to do?
[00:21:37] Steven Willis: Yeah, some of it is trial and error. So doing manager calls and, in-the-weeds asset management, probably not for me. That’s not, that’s not where I thrive, you know? So a lot of it was just everyone does everything, and you sort of figure out what you’re good at and what you suck at. And fortunately, we’re all different enough that none of us really fell into the same buckets. Sorry, I sort of rambled there. But yeah, I think there were actually moments where things that you were normally doing, you had a newborn at home, and we were under contract on a deal. So I had to take over parts of that.
[00:22:22] Steven Willis: And then I realized there were parts of that that I was good at. I can kind of project-manage, like, you know, an acquisition fairly competently. And then there were times that you were out, and I had to do some of your asset management work. And that was really clear to me that you suck at this. This is just not your thing. And so, yeah, a lot of it was trial and error for us. And a lot of the investor relations piece was a lot of those guys are my relationships too. So that was just more natural to do that, and I kind of like it.
[00:23:01] Albert Gillispie: Yeah. So trial and error is okay. Yes. You know, I feel like in business, you’re going to, you’re going to fail. Like, no one’s batting a thousand. Like, we’re going to make the wrong decisions. Even deal to deal, like, we’re making mistakes all the time. But it’s that you continue to figure out, okay, how can we get a little bit better? Okay, I’m not great at this, but maybe Tanner or Albert is better at that. And it’s just this continuous process of constant, never-ending improvement that we’ve all kind of pushed each other towards.
[00:23:39] Steven Willis: Yeah. Well, and I think too we’ve learned how to work together, but we’ve also learned a lot about ourselves. To where if any of us went off and started another company we would kind of know, you know, even if it’s totally unrelated, something different, I would sort of know, okay, this is really where I need to be, and my partner that I’m with, like, they need to be strong in these areas. So, some of it’s the fact that we started in our twenties and we had, and we started small, so we had kind of the luxury to figure it out as we were going. And now that we’re, you know, super old and have families and, you know, some experience, I feel like we can make, you know, sooner decisions on who wears what hat.
[00:24:27] Albert Gillispie: I know what I would say and I’ve alluded to a lot of it, but what would you say is your unique gift, your unique ability within the business?
[00:24:37] Steven Willis: Yeah, I think, and you’ve alluded to it. I mean, I don’t, I wouldn’t say, you know, wisdom is my strength or anything like that, but I would, you know, I would say I can provide kind of a steadiness and somewhat predictability. But also just I feel like I’m able to sort of zoom out on decision-making and maybe provide a perspective that keeps the big picture in mind. But I’m curious what you’d say.
[00:25:10] Steven Willis: Yeah, no!
[00:25:11] Albert Gillispie: Boo, you’re so, you’re too humble.
[00:25:13] Steven Willis: I need a list in front of me. I think so much of what you talked about being principled is why you are so strong with investor relations. When everything’s going bad, it’s tempting for the normal person to try and just deliver the good, to try and sugarcoat things.
[00:25:38] Albert Gillispie: And that is such a gift for someone who has to communicate with high stakes. You are this principled person who can clearly articulate the big picture, like you said, but with principles that just give people real information where they know, they know where you stand. They know. And when you’re armed with accurate principles and information, you can make good decisions, you know, whether that’s good or bad. That is such a good strength.
[00:26:09] Albert Gillispie: And really like being principled like that, you’re able to objectively, you know, you really lead all of our underwriting. Every deal we look at, like it’s coming across your desk in some shape or form. We’ve had analysts on our team for different seasons and you are just able to objectively see the big picture.
[00:26:34] Albert Gillispie: And be able to discern, you know, pretty quickly. That’s your superpower, really, is bringing that to every deal we do. There’s another aspect that you, and maybe it’s an extension of being able to see the big picture, but so many different things we do, you know, we’ve done several different types of real estate.
[00:27:00] Albert Gillispie: We have really two, you know, industrial multifamily that we have some expertise that we manage. But throughout the other ventures that we have helped become strategic partners in, you’re really good at creatively putting together the right structure and aligning incentives for everyone on the team.
[00:27:23] Albert Gillispie: And where does that come from? How do you feel that you were able to— is that just from seeing a lot of deals or where does that, you know, come from? Cause that’s really where I see a lot of creativity that is. I love it. Okay, I’m like, every time I’m like, okay, I don’t know how this is going to work, how we can make these numbers work, but let’s talk to Steven.
[00:27:45] Steven Willis: Yeah, that's what I like about the business, though, is that you can— that’s what I’ve always liked about it is that there’s not like a one-way to do it. Whereas when you’re an employee and you’re tasked to do a job, there’s like a way that you are trained in the way that you’re supposed to do the job.
[00:28:04] Steven Willis: And that was, if I ever got in trouble at work, that was typically why. It was like, I thought there’s a better way to do this. And that was not always received great. And so I think being able to just kind of use that creative part of your brain is one of my favorite parts about business.
Lessons Learned, Practical Advice, and Closing Thoughts
[00:28:24] Steven Willis: And that's why I’ve always thought that I would be in business, was just that I think there’s just, you know, there’s so many ways to do it. Like you’ve seen, you know, I can’t remember the figure, but I mean, there’s some insane number of millionaires in America and there’s some insane number of how many are made every day.
[00:28:43] Steven Willis: And it’s just like, they all did different things. Very few of them did it the exact same way. And so that’s, that’s fun to me. It’s just that, you know, you don’t have to recreate the wheel, but you might make it better.
[00:28:58] Albert Gillispie: I think people will be surprised to hear that because, you know, the Steven that everyone sees is this just very disciplined and principled guy that him having this, this creative feather in his hat is unexpected, but I’m always blown away by it.
[00:29:19] Albert Gillispie: And that’s funny.
[00:29:20] Steven Willis: It’s where I get to use my— one of my favorite things, coaching, was creating workout plans. It was just, that was like a— and then I wound up making a business around it. It was like selling workout plans and programming. And so I get to kind of use that every now and then in our business. I still use it for my own, you know, workout programming, but I get to use it for us too, which is fun.
[00:29:48] Albert Gillispie: You’ve obviously spent a lot of time developing principles, developing, you know, why you do everything that you do. And I feel like, you know, there’s never a wasted lesson. Maybe can you talk about what are some of the hard lessons that you’ve learned that you know, the aspiring entrepreneur needs to hear? What’s something, one of those hard lessons that you feel like they need to hear.
[00:30:14] Steven Willis: I think entrepreneurs in particular need to watch their vices. I think entrepreneurship is really fun when it’s going well. And it feels like you can’t miss, everything’s going right financially, and it’s fun. And so just as an example, like if times are going great and you’re just kind of treating yourself with like my thing was like, I wanted to have like an old-fashioned.
[00:30:45] Steven Willis: Yeah, maybe two, you know, at night. And that is not, I mean, it’s not healthy, but it’s not like you’re not getting hammered, you know, you’re just kind of enjoying a drink, spending some time with your wife. It’s nice. But entrepreneurship, the other side of that coin is it’s insanely stressful when things go wrong and uniquely stressful compared to if you’re working a nine to five.
[00:31:13] Steven Willis: And so those little vices like that can turn from something that’s not really anything, just something you enjoy, to becoming something that you need. And you start to lean on it as a crutch and then everybody suffers. You suffer, your family suffers. And so what I would suggest is to find a healthy coping skill, because you’re going to go, like you’re going to have stress.
[00:31:40] Steven Willis: You’re going to need coping mechanisms for that. And so find, you know, for me, it’s fitness. For me, it’s just fitness. I’ll beat the tar out of my body. I enjoy that. And when times are really stressful, I might lean on that a little harder just for the mental and emotional health and clarity, if that makes sense.
[00:32:04] Steven Willis: When times are great, it helps me, you know, mentally and emotionally and all of that. But, it’s more of just a physical endeavor. And when times are hard, I can lean on that a little bit more just for some— like that’s my mental health hour. And so, anyway, watch the vices is my suggestion, particularly to entrepreneurs, because those things can become— they can go from something innocuous to something really serious.
[00:32:34] Albert Gillispie: That there’s so, there’s so much of being an entrepreneur that is all about like self-discovery. You know, on our journey, when we started in our early mid-twenties, you know, it was— we didn’t know what are we uniquely gifted to do? What do we have to offer this world to, you know, becoming husbands and dads and, you know, getting involved in church? There’s so much along our journey that has been fun to do together that is all about this self-discovery.
[00:33:08] Albert Gillispie: But I feel like that never ends. Like you’re always trying to learn, you know, what makes me tick, what gets me excited. And that’s another one of those that you really don’t know. It’s hard, it’s hard to really put your finger on that until you go through the tough times and kind of see yourself. What do you do at your worst and how do you, how do you have a, you know, a support system in place to kind of hold you accountable, but to be like, “Alright, man, you put on some pounds or, you know, you probably should go home right now.”
[00:33:47] Steven Willis: I mean, you know, you, I think you learn about yourself in both seasons. Like when things are really good, you kind of learn a little bit about your character in those times too. And unfortunately, you do tend to learn a little more when times are bad, but they’re necessary.
[00:34:04] Albert Gillispie: What other pieces of advice— not necessarily hard lessons learned, but any like practical things that either you wish you knew when you were 18 or, you know, someone who’s starting their company. Like what’s a practical piece of advice you would give them?
[00:34:24] Steven Willis: So if the, if a listener is, you know, maybe just getting started, just married, or single, I would say try all the things and work insane hours because you can. You know, like do spend a ton of time exploring and figuring out what you like, what you hate. And, you know, failure is nothing. You just keep moving and you learn. The focus in your twenties should not be money. It should be learning.
[00:35:03] Steven Willis: I like that. And then kind of piggybacking on that, I really think the— you know, be careful with the “follow your passion” thing. You know, like it’s not necessarily wrong and some people, it’s exactly what they should do, but I don’t think everyone should do that. And I think, you know, if you are a passionate person, you could be good at a lot of stuff. So you don’t have to turn your passion of basket weaving into a business.
[00:35:27] Steven Willis: I’ve ruined a lot of hobbies making it a job. So anyway, sometimes hobbies just need to stay as they are. That’s great, but yeah, you need a little variety in your life.
[00:35:49] Albert Gillispie: Last kind of a couple of quick questions. Something we’re working on in the podcast is some kind of, I don’t know if it’s a fire round or whatever, but just a handful of practical questions. I’ve gotten in some of the coaching that I’ve been a part of is some of these, you know, just kind of practical nuggets that once you hear from enough entrepreneurs, you kind of pick out one or two that you want to implement.
[00:36:16] Albert Gillispie: And so, first one, what— you mentioned reading a time or two in this. What are like, what’s your top three entrepreneurial business books?
[00:36:27] Steven Willis: “Every Good Endeavor” by Tim Keller. Okay. It’s a Christian book and it is about how to basically how to treat work. And I found that tremendously helpful. Had to read a few times, but it’s a great mindset. “Mindset” by Carol Dweck. A great one. Hard to beat that. It’s hard not to put that in there.
[00:36:45] Steven Willis: And then, I already mentioned this one, “Atomic Habits” by James Clear.
[00:36:57] Albert Gillispie: Okay. That’s your top three.
[00:36:58] Steven Willis: I don't want to put that in my top three, but it just is because I refer to it.
[00:37:04] Steven Willis: All the time. And so I just, I’m like, it just has to be one of my top threes. And so, yeah, I do those. They’re not really entrepreneurial business books, but like super helpful.
[00:37:18] Albert Gillispie: I mean, those are very practical, you know, personal development. Like do the hard work. I would say they’re at least must-reads.
[00:37:24] Steven Willis: I mean, they’re—whether you’re in business or not, it’s like, those are great.
[00:37:30] Albert Gillispie: That’s like the Steven recipe right there. As I’m thinking about it, you’re like Mr. Principal. How am I going to put together, you know, why I do the things I do? Like, yeah, those are the books.
[00:37:41] Albert Gillispie: That’s great. Other one. What is, I mean, you make fun of me all the time— you’re an Apple guy. What is one piece of technology that you use all the time that the average person doesn’t know about or doesn’t use, but one piece of technology that you use that’s been really impactful in your life?
[00:38:00] Albert Gillispie: I guess it’s a tough one.
[00:38:01] Steven Willis: Because it’s hard not to say iPhone, but everyone has one, so that’s not helpful. I will stay on the theme of principles. If you use an app every single day, pay for the ad-free version. To me, that’s just myFitnessPal, a great example, if I may. I use that every day, I have for the last 10 years.
[00:38:24] Albert Gillispie: That’s an app that you log all of your food and use it to log your food and very helpful, great app, but this is not a plug for myFitnessPal. It’s more about the principle of. If I’m having to sit through a 30-second ad three times a day, well, that’s like nine hours a year, and for 50 bucks, which my time is worth more than $5 an hour.
[00:38:48] Steven Willis: So, to me, if there’s an app that you really like that is a helpful tool to you, just pay for the— that’s like a luxury worth paying for every time.
[00:39:02] Albert Gillispie: Dang. I’ve got to get a subscription to Spotify. I listen to so many ads on Spotify when I’m working out.
[00:39:09] Steven Willis: Spotify is a great example. Like if you’re always on it, it’s like you drop one of your other subscriptions that you don’t use every day, you know, and get that one.
[00:39:19] Albert Gillispie: Okay. That was good. That was good. I— Unexpected. And last, how do people get ahold of you? How can people do business with you? How do they get in touch with you?
[00:39:30] Steven Willis: Email is probably the easiest: steven@stagcapitalco.com. Otherwise, I’m on the socials, but you know—Instagram as WillisJunior, I believe.
[00:39:45] Steven Willis: Thanks for having me, dude.
[00:39:45] Albert Gillispie: Right on, dude. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. And yeah, we’ll have to have you back in here and do another one once we get a little further down the road. Cool. I enjoyed the hell out of it. Thank you so much for listening today. I hope you got a lot out of it. If you liked what you heard and you want more where that came from, go ahead and click subscribe, leave us a review so that more people can find out about our podcast, and we will see you on the next one.
[00:40:12] Albert Gillispie: Thank you.
