What does it take to thrive in sales and leadership when faced with adversity?

In this episode, business expert, Brantley Fowler, shares his compelling journey of resilience, personal transformation, and business growth. From the struggles of starting out in a competitive sales industry to the challenges of overcoming personal battles, this conversation is packed with raw insights and actionable advice.

You’ll learn the importance of persistence, the power of building authentic relationships, and how to create a sustainable foundation for success—both in business and in life. 

Whether you’re navigating a tough market, striving to become a better leader, or simply looking for inspiration, this episode offers invaluable lessons to apply right now.

📒 Show Notes and Resources 📒

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Kellen Ketchersid
Kellen is a co-founder of Stag Business Coaching, business strategist, and a systems thinker. He leverages his extensive experience in biotech and consulting to empower entrepreneurs to navigate complex challenges with strategic growth solutions.

Albert Gillispie
Albert is a serial entrepreneur, business efficiency expert and co-founder of Stag Business Coaching who has founded several multimillion-dollar companies. With expertise in optimizing operations and innovative systems, he mentors business leaders who want to unlock their business’s full potential.

🎤 Brantley Fowler

Brantley Fowler is a business owner in the imaging and shredding industry. He runs Zeno Office Solutions, a company specializing in selling and servicing printers, copiers, and secure document destruction (shredding) services. The business was founded by his father in 1999, and Brantley is preparing to take full ownership as of January 2025.

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EPISODE 27 TRANSCRIPTION

Introduction

Albert [00:00]: All right, we are live. Welcome to the podcast, Mr. Brantley Fowler. How are you, sir?

Brantley Fowler [00:04]: Great, man. How are you doing?

Albert [00:06]: I'm doing good. You've got a good radio voice. I like that.

Brantley Fowler [00:09]: Thanks. Appreciate that.

Albert [00:11]: You're welcome. You're welcome. We have faces built for the radio. I want to start out with an icebreaker. You recently made an adventure trip down to Africa and went on a hunting trip. Tell me about that.

Brantley Fowler [00:21]: Yeah, man, that was a trip of a lifetime—Africa. So, I went to South Africa.

Albert [00:27]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [00:28]: It wasn't a trip that I would ever say I wanted to go on, you know what I mean? Like, there are places that you want to go and then there are places that you just don’t even think about going. And that was one that, you know, I didn’t think about going ever.

Albert [00:39]: Right.

Brantley Fowler [00:40]: Two years ago, I bought a trip at an auction—a hunting trip. My brother conned me into doing that. So, I bought this trip, decided to take my father-in-law. You have to book it, pick the dates, and all that.

Albert [00:52]: Right.

Brantley Fowler [00:53]: So, we went to the Limpopo Province of South Africa. The hunt was about a week, and then the next week we flew down to Cape Town. We stayed in Cape Town for three or four days. The travel—getting there and getting back home—made it about a two-week trip. So, it was incredible.

Albert [01:10]: Two weeks. So, it was you, your brother, and your father-in-law?

Brantley Fowler [01:14]: No, just me and my father-in-law. My brother’s part of the story because he conned me into doing the hunt to begin with—like buying it.

Albert [01:22]: Anyway, okay, what did you hunt? Did you get the animals?

Brantley Fowler [01:26]: I did. Let’s see. The biggest thing I wanted to hunt was a kudu.

Albert [01:30]: Uh-huh.

Brantley Fowler [01:31]: That’s really why I took my father-in-law, because that’s his dream—to always go to Africa and shoot a kudu. So, like, what better time than now?

Albert [01:39]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [01:40]: The greater kudu—they’re like the size of a horse, and they have those huge spiral horns that go backward. They’re just magnificent.

Albert [01:49]: Horns—they don’t shed those?

Brantley Fowler [01:52]: No, they call them the gray ghost.

Albert [01:54]: Uh-huh.

Brantley Fowler [01:55]: And for good reason. I mean, those things—as big as they are—you can’t.

Hunting Highlights

Albert [02:30]: They're hard to hunt. You can't see them.

Brantley Fowler [02:33]: Yeah, they're just incredible animals. But we both shot a kudu. I shot a warthog.

Albert [02:39]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [02:40]: I got a big warthog, so I’ll have to show you the picture of that when we’re done. I also got a zebra.

Albert [02:46]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [02:47]: Yes. Let’s see, what else did I shoot? I shot an ostrich.

Albert [02:52]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [02:53]: The meat is amazing.

Albert [02:55]: Did you eat the meat?

Brantley Fowler [02:56]: I didn’t. Maybe I should have, but what they do over there is, when you shoot an animal, they take the meat—when they skin it—you get to keep it for a mount or whatever. But they take the meat and donate it to the local villages.

Albert [03:09]: That’s cool.

Brantley Fowler [03:10]: Yeah. The place we stayed at would use some of the meat to cook meals, but probably not from the animals we shot. It’s what they make you think, though.

Albert [03:18]: Right.

Brantley Fowler [03:19]: Then, what else did I shoot? I shot a diker.

Albert [03:22]: A diker?

Brantley Fowler [03:23]: Yeah, a little guy.

Albert [03:24]: The little bitty antelope?

Brantley Fowler [03:25]: Yeah, the little baby antelope. I shot a diker. I feel like I shot one more. Oh, I shot an impala.

Albert [03:31]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [03:32]: The impala was the first animal I shot when I got there, and that was fun. The one thing I wanted to shoot that we hunted for three different days and just couldn’t get—they were hard to hunt—was a baboon.

Albert [03:44]: A baboon?

Brantley Fowler [03:45]: Yeah. We went to the mountains a couple of days. The baboons are like 300 to 400 pounds.

Albert [03:50]: Holy cow.

Brantley Fowler [03:51]: They’re huge. They could rip your face off. They’re elusive, though.

Albert [03:55]: I’ve never known anybody to go on a baboon hunt.

Brantley Fowler [03:58]: Yeah.

Albert [03:59]: Okay, overall, how does hunting in Africa compare to hunting in Texas under a feeder and in a blind? How wildly different is it?

Brantley Fowler [04:08]: I can tell you, I have no experience doing that.

Albert [04:11]: Really?

Brantley Fowler [04:12]: This was literally the second time I’ve ever hunted.

Albert [04:15]: Oh my gosh.

Brantley Fowler [04:16]: Yeah, I’m ruined forever.

Albert [04:18]: I’d say so.

Brantley Fowler [04:19]: The only other time I hunted was at my brother’s bachelor party years ago. I’m not a hunter.

Albert [04:24]: And your brother conned you into a trip of a lifetime.

Brantley Fowler [04:27]: Exactly.

Unique Experiences in Cape Town

Albert [04:53]: He did. And he was pissed, you know, because he's a big hunter. He's like, "I can't believe you're going to Africa before I am."

Brantley Fowler [05:01]: My word.

Albert [05:02]: So, yeah. OK. And then Cape Town. Cape Town—what did you do there?

Brantley Fowler [05:06]: So, we were—it’s a four-hour flight from where we were. We were basically on the very northeast corner of South Africa, near Botswana and the other countries. Cape Town, obviously, is on the very southern tip.

Albert [05:20]: Right.

Brantley Fowler [05:21]: And that was incredible. We were scheduled to get in a cage, and they were going to feed great whites around us—drop us down, and we were going to do all that. But the seas were too bad, so we didn’t get to go.

Albert [05:34]: Oh no.

Brantley Fowler [05:35]: That was disappointing because that was going to be the biggest thrill of a lifetime. But we ended up going on a couple of tours to different parts around Cape Town, like the very tip of the continent.

Albert [05:45]: OK.

Brantley Fowler [05:46]: We saw penguins, did all that kind of stuff. We went out on a boat and saw southern right whales. It was their mating season when we were there.

Albert [05:54]: Wow.

Brantley Fowler [05:55]: So, they all go to this one bay and mate there for like three months, then leave and go to Antarctica.

Albert [06:02]: That’s wild.

Brantley Fowler [06:03]: Yeah, it was cool. We stayed at a sweet resort. We went up to Table Rock Mountain, which is a mountain in Cape Town that sits above the city. You can take a gondola up there.

Albert [06:13]: Oh, nice.

Brantley Fowler [06:14]: You look down at the city—it’s incredibly beautiful. Then we just ate good food, hung out, and walked around.

Albert [06:22]: What a trip.

Brantley Fowler [06:23]: It really was.

Albert [06:24]: I wanted to ask you about that for a while.

Brantley Fowler [06:26]: It was fun. The hunting was phenomenal, and even though I’m not a hunter, being around those people—the people are fantastic.

Albert [06:33]: That’s great.

Brantley Fowler [06:34]: The family that owns the hunting outfit was just amazing. They love Americans. It felt like being part of their family.

Insights on South African Wildlife Management

Albert [07:18]: So what surprised me is you think that you're going to be like in the wilderness, you know? That’s, in my mind as a non-hunter, what I was thinking—hunting in Africa would be like. But it was so much like West Texas. Just like mesquite bushes, trees, stuff like that. A lot of dirt.

Brantley Fowler [07:35]: Yeah.

Albert [07:36]: And it’s basically like massive ranches that are fenced in with the animals. I was thinking it’s free range, like you’re following the animals.

Brantley Fowler [07:43]: No, it’s not like that.

Albert [07:44]: No?

Brantley Fowler [07:45]: If they don’t control it, the people will eat those animals.

Albert [07:48]: Really?

Brantley Fowler [07:49]: Yeah. So, my friends that go to Africa often—they’re like professional hunters who guide.

Albert [07:55]: Yes.

Brantley Fowler [07:56]: That’s a thing they go to school for.

Albert [07:58]: Wow.

Brantley Fowler [07:59]: Some of those countries—I can’t remember if it’s Zimbabwe or which country—but some of them have like a three-year program you go through.

Albert [08:05]: Really?

Brantley Fowler [08:06]: It’s like a wildlife management degree. You’re learning how to manage these herds, how to take care of them, when to bring in a vet, when not to. That’s a big part of their economy.

Albert [08:14]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [08:15]: It’s huge. They typically give the meat to the locals so they can eat it. But managing those herds, keeping them from becoming imbalanced or being overhunted—if they didn’t do that, those populations would disappear.

Albert [08:27]: Right.

Brantley Fowler [08:28]: And they’d lose all of that income that comes from it.

Albert [08:30]: That’s a huge business.

Brantley Fowler [08:32]: It really is. But the crazy thing is the elephants. They talked a lot about those hunts, and I didn’t realize how destructive elephants are over there.

Albert [08:40]: Really?

Brantley Fowler [08:41]: Yeah. They destroy crops, trample and kill people, and destroy villages. Elephants are actually a problem.

Albert [08:47]: You think of them as these nice animals you see in the zoo.

Brantley Fowler [08:50]: No, they’re not like that over there. A wild elephant—

Albert [08:53]: Completely different.

Brantley Fowler [08:54]: —is just destructive. And this family I hunted with, they have another place in Botswana. It’s four million acres.

Albert [08:59]: Four million acres?

Brantley Fowler [09:00]: Yeah. It’s massive.

Transition to Business Ownership

Albert [09:37]: Goodness. They hunt, they do elephant hunts over there. That’s crazy.

Brantley Fowler [09:42]: Yeah, it is.

Albert [09:44]: Okay, I wanted to ask you about that. That’s great. The reason we have you here—this is a business growth masterclass. It’s a business improvement podcast, and you’re a business owner. So tell me a little bit about your business and how you got into it. What do you do, and how did you get started?

Brantley Fowler [09:58]: Yeah, great question. So, I am in the imaging business. We sell and service printers, copiers—that sort of thing—for businesses. It’s strictly business-to-business. When we expanded to Lubbock, we also got into the shredding business. So now we’re doing onsite, secure document destruction.

Albert [10:18]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [10:19]: There’s probably a really catchy way to say what I do, but that’s essentially it.

Albert [10:22]: Don’t try to church it up.

Brantley Fowler [10:23]: Exactly. So, my dad started the company back in 1999. I joined the business in 2013 when I decided to leave the Coast Guard. At the time, my dad was looking for a succession plan. He wanted to get out of the business eventually, and my brother and sister didn’t want to work there. I guess I was his last option.

Albert [10:42]: His last ditch effort?

Brantley Fowler [10:43]: Exactly. So, I came to work at Zeno Office Solutions in Midland in 2013 and started doing sales. I’d go up and down the street, knocking on doors, and I absolutely loved it.

Albert [10:54]: Really?

Brantley Fowler [10:55]: Yeah, I had a lot of success, grew our customer base, and helped the company grow significantly. Eventually, Dad and I came up with a plan for me to buy the company, which is where we are today.

Albert [11:08]: Okay. I have so many questions. So, it’s a family-owned business?

Brantley Fowler [11:12]: Yes, family-owned.

Albert [11:13]: And your dad started it?

Brantley Fowler [11:14]: Yes, he started it with a partner back in 1999. His partner unfortunately passed away from cancer in 2010.

From Military to Business

Albert [12:06]: And his partner and him were like great friends, great business partners. They literally made their deal for him to buy his half out on the back of a napkin. They just came up with a number and said, “We’re only that far apart. You want to just split it down the middle?” “Okay, cool. Let’s do the deal.” They were just like that.

Albert [12:25]: So when you came into the business, the business was 15, 14 years old?

Brantley Fowler [12:29]: Yeah.

Albert [12:30]: And how many employees were in the business at that point?

Brantley Fowler [12:32]: I think we had probably like maybe 12, 12 or 13.

Albert [12:36]: Okay. So there’s some people that had been there for a while. How were the first couple of years? You’re the SOB—you’re the son of a boss that walks into the business. How did that go the first couple of years? Tell me about that.

Brantley Fowler [12:48]: Well, so when I was a kid growing up, Dad always gave us the opportunity to work there. I had done everything from working in the warehouse, breaking down boxes, scrubbing toilets, delivering toner, and delivering machines to customers—like new equipment. I had even done sales calls.

So going in, people knew how my dad was, and they knew he wasn’t going to let me have anything easy. I wasn’t worried about that. But the way I’m wired, I wanted to prove myself to people. It was really important to me that they saw me as just another employee, but also as somebody who was going to make my own way—it wasn’t going to be handed to me.

It was kind of weird at first, but the first couple of years, it didn’t take but 60 days for people to see, “He’s just another employee. He might be Dale’s son, but he’s not going to get anything handed to him.”

Albert [13:36]: That’s good.

Brantley Fowler [13:37]: Yeah.

Albert [13:38]: There are all different flavors of that, from being handed things on a silver spoon to being in the trenches doing the grunt work. And you said you had some pretty initial success in that?

Brantley Fowler [13:47]: Yeah.

Albert [13:48]: It was sales?

The Challenges of Sales

Albert [14:32]: This like cold, walking up, you know, asking for the sale—is that like in the business? Is that, you feel like, your wheelhouse? Those are your gifts? Like, what’s your, what’s your gift in the business?

Brantley Fowler [14:44]: That’s a good question. You know, I’m biased, but this business is the hardest business to do sales in. Anybody that has done it would tell you that. I’ve had some very experienced, very tenured, highly successful salespeople come to sell—to do what we do, business-to-business sales, selling what we sell—and they’re like, “I can’t do it. It’s too hard.”

It’s just a lot of rejection. It’s cold calling, business-to-business, and you’re just trying to set appointments to get your foot in the door, to see if they have a need, to see if you can. It’s just right place, right time. But there’s so much rejection. Then you get a little bit of light to get an appointment or maybe a proposal.

Albert [15:19]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [15:20]: What are the chances you get that business and bring that customer on? It’s tough. You’ve got to do a lot to just make it, much less to be successful to a degree. My goal wasn’t really to be successful. My goal was to be a unicorn.

Albert [15:33]: What does that mean?

Brantley Fowler [15:34]: It just means I wanted to do things that nobody else had ever done in sales in the industry. I wanted to do it to a level that not only Zeno had ever seen, but where people within the industry would say, “That’s not normal.”

Albert [15:48]: Why?

Brantley Fowler [15:49]: Because I’m wired, man. What is fun about being average? That has always been my thing.

Now, coming into ownership, all my employees know: if we’re going to be average, why are we doing this? I don’t want to just be good. I want to be like a unicorn, so far above and beyond. That’s actually part of our core values at our company. One of our core values is “premiere.”

It’s basically that we’re a unicorn in the industry, and we remain that way. That’s how we are for our customers.

Aiming for Excellence

Albert [16:50]: There's a lot to that, but that's the 30,000-foot view of it. So you want to be a unicorn in sales. You walk into this, you're doing the hard part, the hard selling, and had some pretty early success from that. Tell me a little bit about some of those wins. Like, describe the picture of this unicorn.

Brantley Fowler [17:08]: Well, I'll tell you what that means. It was just really hard. I had a daughter who was young. I was coming out of the military. I took a pay cut from the military to work for my dad and do sales.

Albert [17:19]: Okay.

Brantley Fowler [17:20]: So that tells you a lot. I was on straight commission, but I had to provide for my family. I got stuck in a territory in downtown Midland where we had no business, very low success historically. And they're like, "Here's your territory. Go make calls. See what you can do."

The first—I was on a quarterly commission plan—so the first quarter I was there, I made a $9,000 commission check, and I thought I had just died and gone to heaven. I made it. I cried when my dad went over the numbers with me. He showed me the $9,000. It was like this mystery reveal, "Okay, here it is." And I just remember crying like a baby because I had never seen that.

Then, two weeks later, when I got paid, I'm calling him going, "Hey, I didn't get the $9,000 in my account. It's like $5,000." He’s like, "Welcome to paying taxes."

Albert [18:04]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [18:05]: That was my first exposure to Uncle Sam, and I was really disappointed. So after that, it was always like, "Okay, what’s it going to be after taxes?"

Albert [18:13]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [18:14]: But, you know, people are in sales for a lot of different reasons. It’s just across the board. I listen to a lot of different sales podcasts because I love sales, and I like salespeople. I think what drives sales is just so many different things.

But when you’re young and hungry, and you have a family to feed, you’re there to help a customer, but you’re there to make a living.

The Power of Persistence

Albert [19:12]: Like, you have to win to make a living. You can't just take losses all the time, you know? And so, I was just so determined. Like, this has to work. I don’t have another choice. I was making 50 to 60 door knocks, business-to-business, in person, every day.

Brantley Fowler [19:27]: Right.

Albert [19:28]: And then on Mondays, I would call maybe 100 businesses over the phone. I would do that every week, every day, just to try to get some momentum going. And, you know, fast forward three years later, some of the other salespeople at Zeno were like, “Well, why does he get downtown Midland?”

Brantley Fowler [19:45]: Right.

Albert [19:46]: They were saying, “There was nothing there three years ago. Now everybody wants to be there.” And so, you know, I was like, “Okay, I’ll go sell somewhere else.” At the end of the day, you create your own destiny in sales. So to me, it was like, it doesn’t matter where you put me. I’m going to make it happen.

Brantley Fowler [20:02]: Right.

Albert [20:03]: Fast forward even more, expanding up here to Lubbock, it was just on a much bigger scale because it was like, “Okay, now we’re going to take our company in Midland, that’s really successful, that has a really good name, and we’re going to take that to a whole different city.” I’m going to take this to a new city and try to replicate this thing that’s so great, which is scary, but also kind of like how it was when I started selling.

Brantley Fowler [20:28]: Right.

Albert [20:29]: It was like, “I’m going to do this.” And nobody knew who we were when we came here. So anyway, that’s been probably the most fun part about expanding up here—it feels a lot like the days of old.

Albert [20:42]: Okay, hang on, hang on. We’ve got to pause right here. This is a great nugget. You’re calling 50 to 60 people every single day. On Mondays, you’re calling 100. Fast forward three years.

Albert [21:25]: Let’s sit there for a second. Business owners need to hear that. You have to make the calls. You have to go collect your “nos.” Get told “no” 50 times a day, keep showing up the next day with a smile on your face, and try again to ask, “How can I solve this customer’s problem?” Do that 50 times a day and twice on Monday.

Brantley Fowler [21:45]: Right.

Albert [21:46]: And get told a lot of “nos.”

Brantley Fowler [21:48]: Yeah, a lot of “nos.” And I know “no” just means “not right now.”

Albert [21:52]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [21:53]: You just have to be able to have thick skin, especially in this business, because you get told “no” a lot. Who wants to talk about a printer? Nobody wants to meet with you about it.

Albert [22:03]: Right.

Brantley Fowler [22:04]: That’s what makes it hard. It’s so important to businesses. And of course, the technology nowadays changes things, but it’s so important. At the same time, it’s the last thing people want to talk about. I always laugh because I know I’m the last guy you want to talk to. But I enjoy making the relationship.

Albert [22:22]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [22:23]: The connection and the relationship with people is what I enjoy the most, just like with employees. It’s that relationship, putting time into it.

Albert [22:33]: If you’re a realtor, if you’re any kind of salesperson starting a career, you need to accept the fact that for the next at least two years, make 50 to 60 calls a day and do it twice on Monday. That’s the time. That’s the initial deposit you need to put in.

Brantley Fowler [22:51]: Absolutely.

Albert [22:52]: You’re cultivating this field, this crop. You’re plowing, planting, fertilizing, doing all these things for two years. Eventually, you get to reap the harvest. But I love what you said about building relationships. So much of sales is about offering solutions.

Building Relationships in Sales

Albert [23:43]: You think that selling products and services is this transactional thing, like, “I’m going to meet somebody and sell them on this.” And that’s just not how it works. You’re reaching out to these people five, six, seven times, and you’re building rapport.

Brantley Fowler [23:58]: Exactly.

Albert [23:59]: Right? You’re telling them your story, how you can help solve their problems. Then, when the actual problem comes—when the printer breaks and they’ve tried all the DIY YouTube videos they can and they’re about ready to throw the thing office space style—they think, “Man, who’s that guy who knows how to do this? Give me his number. Get him in here.”

Brantley Fowler [24:20]: Right.

Albert [24:21]: That’s solving people’s problems. People who aren’t in sales hear that and think, “Oh, salesy. This guy’s going to keep calling.” But what you’re describing is building relationships with people. You’re not giving them a hard sell 50 times a day. It’s more like, “Hey man, how are you doing? What are you guys doing for this service? Is that going well?” And eventually, it’s, “Hey man, my hair’s on fire. Come fix this problem.”

Brantley Fowler [24:45]: Absolutely.

Albert [24:46]: I think, to your point, I finally learned that. I read this book called Spin Selling. It’s super old school, but it used to be like my Bible for selling. When I got in a slump, I’d reread Spin Selling. It has a lot of old sales tactics, but it taught me how to create a need—not fabricate one, but recognize when a customer doesn’t even realize they have a problem yet.

Brantley Fowler [25:08]: Exactly.

Albert [25:09]: It’s about learning how to ask questions and just listen. I think too many salespeople just talk too much. They don’t ask questions and listen. For me, one of my favorite parts of selling in the field every day was asking questions and learning.

Learning Through Failure

Albert [26:03]: I started learning about all these different things in oil and gas just from asking questions, being in Midland. Everything from drilling to fracking to sand hauling to logistics to downhole tools. It was fascinating. People love to talk about themselves.

Brantley Fowler [26:19]: Absolutely.

Albert [26:20]: It was cool to hear someone who had just started a company talk about their vision and what they were going to do with their business. Or maybe they were experiencing massive growth, and that’s why they were talking to me—they were growing and needed what I had. The sale was cool, but getting to know those people, creating relationships, and watching them take their business from four employees to, two years later, a three-story building with 150 employees—that’s incredible.

Brantley Fowler [26:48]: That’s amazing.

Albert [26:49]: It takes the cake. We have the best customers in the world. A lot of them become friends, and watching them succeed—what’s cooler than that?

Brantley Fowler [27:00]: People have great stories.

Albert [27:01]: They really do. If you ask the right questions, you can pull those stories out and hear how they got started and why they do what they do. Sales gets a bad reputation sometimes, and maybe some of it is earned. But there’s so much about sales that’s about building relationships and solving problems.

Brantley Fowler [27:19]: Absolutely.

Albert [27:20]: I’m not going to say I’ve never made anyone mad from calling on them. The funniest story I have is when I walked into this office, handed the lady my card, and she decided to run it through the shredder right in front of me.

Brantley Fowler [27:34]: No way.

Albert [27:35]: Yeah. She basically told me to get out of her office. So, I pulled out a stack of cards and said, “You’ll probably need a few more of these,” and she shredded all of those too.

Brantley Fowler [27:47]: That’s hilarious.

Albert [27:48]: Now our company has thick plastic business cards. There’s a story behind that.

Brantley Fowler [27:54]: That’s incredible.

Albert [27:55]: Good times. Okay, well, you gave me a good story right there. Tell me more. What are some of the biggest losses you’ve taken, and what did you learn from them?

Brantley Fowler [28:11]: Back in 2015, there was a really big oil downturn in Midland. I was about 15 months into the business. You know the four stages of competence? I was at the consciously incompetent stage—I knew what I didn’t know.

Albert [28:28]: Yeah.

Brantley Fowler [28:29]: Even though I was having some success, I didn’t feel confident. Then this tenured guy who came to work at Zeno beat me for three months straight. I remember sitting in the bullpen thinking, “Is this where I quit?” I couldn’t get any business because downtown Midland wasn’t doing anything during the downturn. But this guy was walking into offices in Odessa and getting deals.

Transformative Life Changes

Albert [30:36]: Taking hard criticism, but also knowing and understanding, like, this guy's getting deals and winning, and I’m not. We're in the same environment. His environment was actually probably harder because he was selling to the service companies in Odessa, not the people in downtown Midland—two very different environments. And yet he's successful. He's beating me.

Brantley Fowler [30:58]: Right.

Albert [30:59]: I remember thinking, “Either I'm going to quit, or I'm going to figure out what's wrong.” I decided to figure out what was wrong. That’s when I read Spin Selling for the first time. I just looked for knowledge, thinking, “What can I learn? There’s got to be something I’m not doing right.”

Brantley Fowler [31:18]: Yeah.

Albert [31:19]: It wasn’t for lack of effort. I was making 250, 300, even 350 calls a week, and I just wasn’t having success. I could have blamed it on the economy, the oil and gas downturn, or anything else. But instead, I asked myself, “What’s wrong with me? What do I need to fix?” Looking in the mirror isn’t easy.

Brantley Fowler [31:39]: It’s not.

Albert [31:40]: I read the book, started trying things from it, and suddenly I started having a little success. Then I read more, implemented more, and had even more success. I bet I reread that book six or seven times in a month. It’s not a thick book, but it’s not short either. I became addicted.

Brantley Fowler [31:59]: That’s amazing.

Albert [32:00]: By the fourth month, I was absolutely crushing it. I remember sitting in the bullpen at the end of that month, thinking, “I almost quit 30 days ago. I almost quit this entire industry.” Looking back now at where I am, I think, “What if I’d chosen the path of quitting?” But instead, by the grace of God, I chose the other path.

Brantley Fowler [32:24]: That’s powerful.

Albert [32:25]: That path led to where I am today. Along the way, there were bumps and bruises, but also so much success. You always have a choice. If you want it bad enough, you’ll dig deep and find whatever it is inside of yourself that’s broken in sales.

Brantley Fowler [32:43]: Absolutely.

Albert [32:44]: You can’t blame the environment, the economy, or anything else. If you’re good enough to buy from in January, you’re good enough to buy from today. It’s about the narratives we tell ourselves.

Brantley Fowler [32:57]: For sure.

Albert [32:58]: My biggest piece of advice is to lean into what’s inside of you. If the effort is there but something’s broken, fix it. There’s no telling where God will take you when you do that.

Albert [34:29]: That is so good. It reminds me of Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. The secret is taking personal responsibility for everything you have control over. It’s not about arrogance or dismissing God’s role, but acknowledging your choices.

Brantley Fowler [34:47]: Right. Faith without works is dead.

Albert [34:48]: Exactly. You have to take action. Are you putting in the effort, making those 50 calls every day, twice on Monday? Do you have a good attitude while doing it? Are you examining yourself with humility and learning from others?

Brantley Fowler [35:07]: That’s the key.

Albert [35:08]: Business owners need to hear this. The world is hard right now. If you’re watching the news, it’s easy to think the future is bleak. But it’s about tenacity—making the next right decision over and over until you win.

Brantley Fowler [35:27]: Absolutely.

Albert [35:28]: Not everyone is failing. Some people are thriving. The question is, will you find those who are? It’s all about mentality.

Brantley Fowler [35:42]: That’s it.

Albert [35:43]: Dude, I love that.

Albert [36:54]: I'm not good at a lot of things, but being persistent and tenacious, that's like the only thing I have going for me. And I appreciate that you said that because that's just what it takes. You know, it's not sexy. It's not an easy bake oven. But that's what it is. We live in a world now where everybody wants instant gratification—instant, instant, instant.

Brantley Fowler [37:12]: Yep.

Albert [37:13]: And that's just part of the world we live in. So why wouldn't you want success to be instant and not require a lot of work? But that’s not how it works. It's just not how it works.

Brantley Fowler [37:22]: Right.

Albert [37:23]: So, yeah, that's spot on. Now, another layer to this—you are very involved with your family. In the middle of all this, you're burning the boats. You’re going to kill something and bring it home. How are you also, in the middle of that, or are you, being a good husband and father through this?

Brantley Fowler [37:41]: No.

Albert [37:42]: Tell me about that.

Brantley Fowler [37:43]: No, not at that time. I was not. I was in the midst of my addiction. So during that time, no, I wasn’t. I was terrible. I needed to make a lot of money to feed my addiction.

Embracing a Purpose-Driven Mindset

Albert [39:06]: And that was just facts. My wife sacrificed a lot in those years for me to be able to go and work late, come home with a newborn, eat dinner really quick, and then go back up to the office. Those were good things. I was being tenacious. I was doing things no other sales rep was doing. That’s why I was gaining traction so fast. But at the end of the day, fast forward three or four years, she was still making a lot of sacrifices for me.

Albert [39:33]: I wasn’t around a lot because I needed to make money to feed my addiction. No, I wasn’t. That’s probably not the answer people want to hear, but for me, that was my story at that time. Until I went to rehab in 2018 and my life changed, I got sober. But until then, those years in between, I made a ton of money. I was really successful outside of my house, but I was horrible inside. I was terrible.

Albert [39:59]: So no, I wasn’t a good dad, not a good husband, not even a great provider in the full sense. Maybe in a financial sense. But even then, not really, because I was really irresponsible. There wasn’t a lot I did well. The only thing I did really well then was sell. And that was it. I wish it was different, but that was just my story.

Albert [40:24]: Tell me more. How did you turn the page? Tell me what you can and what you feel comfortable. There are a lot of business owners that are in that.

Albert [40:33]: For sure.

Albert [40:34]: Especially in years like now, when you're thinking, “I’ve got to burn the boats. I’ve got to do something that’s unsustainable.” But there’s a piece of you that—you know, whether it was forced or not—is examining yourself. How do you go from that to where you are today?

Albert [41:31]: Man.

Albert [41:32]: Getting sober changed my life. Obviously, it allowed me to actually continue to live because I was told I probably only had a few years left to live. In 2018, one of the doctors sat me down during treatment, like my first week there. He said, “So you have kids?” I said, “Yes, sir.” He asked me how old they were, and then he proceeded to tell me, “Based on your blood work, there’s going to be a day—probably in 2021—when you’re just not going to wake up.

Albert [41:55]: “You’re never going to watch your daughter cheer at a football game. You’re never going to watch your son play a sport. You’re not going to walk your daughter down the aisle or see her graduate.” He started listing all this, and I just broke down. The weight of those words was more than I could take.

Albert [42:15]: That was hard to hear, but it was the truth. When I came out of rehab, there were a lot of things it took to be sober. Everyone does it differently. I just got involved in recovery. As they say, connection is protection. That had to come first for me. If I was healthy, I was probably going to be a better dad, a better husband, a better employee, a better whatever.

Albert [42:38]: But I had to put in the work. All this work I had been putting into my job, now I had to do it for myself. I had to work on myself. Being an alcoholic is a disease. If I stopped doing what I need to do to stay sober, I might drink again tomorrow. I don’t even want to guess what that would look like.

Albert [43:12]: I have some ideas when I play the tape forward, and it doesn’t look good—like not good at all. So I became open about it. That was my story. Then I started connecting with people. I just tried to live God’s will, clean up my side of the street, and do things better.

Albert [43:32]: I’m not perfect—nobody is. But it’s about consistency and effort, right? It’s about being honest with yourself and knowing where you’re at. It’s weird because we try not to be honest with ourselves. That’s how the enemy gets to you.

Albert [43:56]: Anyway, I focused on being a better human being. When I came out of that, I thought, “I’m going to have to sell my house. I’m going to have to do all this stuff,” because I had a bad gambling addiction and was in terrible financial condition. Even though I was making six or seven hundred thousand dollars a year, I had no money.

Albert [44:20]: I didn’t know what things were going to look like. Then all of a sudden, I focused on being better—being a better husband, getting healthy, and staying in recovery. And whatever happened with work, happened. All of a sudden, God just provided even more than before.

Albert [44:41]: I look back now and almost wonder if that was God’s way of preparing me to handle what I have today. I don’t think I could handle buying the company from my dad or owning all the stock without having gone through what I went through with my alcoholism.

Albert [45:07]: It’s not over. But the things I’ve learned so far have equipped me to be a better leader, a better boss, a better husband, and a better father. Now I want to spend time at home. I want to sneak off early to be at all my kids’ sporting events. Before, I didn’t want any of that. I just wanted to be at the golf course, gambling, drinking beer.

Albert [45:36]: Even in today’s tough climate and economy, God provides. It might look different than what you picture in your mind, but I’ve learned to relax and let it be. I’m not perfect at it because I want to win, I want to grow. But at the end of the day, I just handed out 1,700-pound hams to all my employees’ families for Thanksgiving.

Albert [46:06]: How blessed am I? There are businesses that can’t do that today. Not that it’s a huge deal, but little things like that remind me how blessed I am. Anyway, man.

Preparing for Business Ownership

Albert [47:23]: As, you know, a guess juxtaposed to the principle that we just laid out prior to that—you have to take complete responsibility for everything, it’s on you—there’s a maturity and development in continuing to wrestle with, “Where is my heart? Where is God in this? Is He in the middle of this, or is He just on the side?” There’s no easy answer to any of that.

Albert [47:50]: If you feel called to be a business owner and an entrepreneur and you are wired that way, that’s just how you’re wired. Those are gifts, right? Those are talents and gifts that God has given you. To be a good steward of that is a heavy responsibility because you have to keep that in its proper place. That can’t be your idol.

Albert [48:14]: You have to continually examine yourself and your heart—“Are my priorities in the right place?”—because if God isn’t at the center, or if you’re not holding that with an open hand, heaven forbid, you get hit by a truck tomorrow. What then? What are your kids going to do? If it’s not in its proper place...

Albert [48:38]: That got a lot deeper than I thought it was going to go, but man, that’s just so real.

Albert [48:45]: No, but that’s perfect. That’s the good stewardship of the hard times.

Albert [49:34]: It’s easy to lean on something you shouldn’t lean on. We talk about it all the time—as a business owner, watch your vices. If it’s having a beer or an old fashioned to relax, and then it becomes, “I’m going to have an old fashioned because it was a hard day,” it can easily spiral. Pick your vice.

Albert [49:59]: That was exactly what happened to me. Before I realized I was on a downhill spiral, I was a salesperson coming home and having one beer. Then it was heavy drinking on the weekends. Then it became one beer a day, plus heavy drinking on the weekends. Then three beers a day.

Albert [50:18]: To your point, how I knew I was ready to be an entrepreneur—how I knew I was ready to actually own this business and own Zeno—was when my first thought stopped being about the money.

Albert [50:33]: That’s business, right? It’s always about the almighty dollar. But the first thought I had when somebody said, “You’re going to be a wealthy man,” was, “I hope I bless a lot of people’s lives.”

Albert [50:49]: I can’t believe I just thought that first. But that’s where my heart is now. That’s where my heart is for this journey of being a new entrepreneur and taking over this successful company.

Albert [51:12]: There’s a lot of fear—“What if it fails? What if it doesn’t work out?”—but the core focus is, “I just want to impact these people’s lives.” These are the people who are part of my team, who I’ve been entrusted with.

Albert [51:30]: I want to impact their lives. I want to do the same thing at home. If the money follows, great. As long as I have what I need, as long as God takes care of me, I’m good. It used to be, “I need to make this many millions a year.” Now, it’s, “I’m sure God will take care of that.”

Albert [51:51]: We can screw that up just fine.

Albert [51:55]: Exactly. I’m so glad you said that. The cynics, those who haven’t been business owners, don’t understand how heavy it is. Employing people is heavy. The families that are dependent on this thing continuing—it’s a lot.

Albert [53:35]: And these paychecks coming in, and those babies and the homes and the food—that’s so heavy. It’s a weight. Is that the right word?

Albert [53:41]: No, it’s a weight.

Albert [53:43]: It’s hard whenever... That’s probably been my biggest fear. The concrete foundation that my dad built the business on—he hasn’t been involved for like three or four years, right? But there’s something about him. Me owning it solely, it’s different. We have all these phenomenal benefits for our employees and things that he created that are above and beyond what so many businesses do. And I’m looking at that going, “Well, I’ve got to carry that. I’ve got to make this work and make it better.”

Albert [54:14]: And that’s a—not a burden, but—it’s a weight. It’s heavy. It’s a heavy feeling because you realize you are truly responsible for people and their families. It’s like, whoa, that gets real, real fast.

Albert [54:30]: Your decision day—you’ve alluded to this several times. Recently, you bought your dad out.

Brantley [54:36]: Close.

Albert [54:37]: Close. And moving into the future, tell me about that. How did that process go, and what are you looking forward to next at Zeno?

Brantley [54:47]: Man, it’s really exciting, I’ll tell you that. We had a plan for me to buy the business or have the option to buy the business. We made this plan about eight years ago—January 1st, 2025, I would buy the company if I chose to do that.

Brantley [55:01]: And boy, a lot can happen in eight years. There were times I thought, “I don’t know if I’m going to do that. What do we need to do? Is something else going to happen? Maybe this isn’t the best path for me.” But ultimately, early 2024, I decided this is what I feel like God wants me to do.

Brantley [55:19]: So I began the process of exercising the option at the end of the year. Now, we’ve been talking about this for eight years. But what does that actually look like? What all is going to go into that?

Brantley [55:32]: We could do a whole segment on that—just the transaction itself. I’ve learned so much through that process.

Brantley [55:38]: And just like when I grew up in the business, this is not a “you get it.” This is “you’re buying the business.” This is a business transaction. There’s no cut here.

Albert [55:49]: Right.

Brantley [55:50]: So it was time to put on the big boy pants and go through that. One of the things I’m so grateful I did about six or seven months ago was a massive due diligence deep dive into our company.

Brantley [56:01]: Which is weird to say because I’ve worked there every day for so many years. When you do that, because you’re going to become an owner, things become real. You learn so much about your business.

Brantley [56:12]: My advice to people would be—even if you’re not buying your company—try to find a way or a time to do a deep dive due diligence like you are going to buy it or sell it.

Brantley [56:22]: It was so eye-opening. It created a lot of things like, “Okay, I’ve got to work on this. This isn’t where I thought it was going to be.”

Brantley [56:29]: And 2023 was a record year for us. It was a 25-year record for our company as far as profits and all that kind of stuff. It was a great year. But yet six months later, I’m looking at it going, “This is so broken. What am I buying?”

Albert [56:46]: Right.

Brantley [56:47]: And it’s really not, but you’re your own worst critic.

Albert [56:50]: Of course.

Brantley [56:51]: So, went through that process, figured out the financial piece of it—what avenue I would use to purchase the company—and got all that sorted out. It’s kind of weird when you’re going back and forth with attorneys with your dad. It’s like, “Hey, they’re coming in town to visit the grandkids’ chapel program, but did you get the documents from the attorney?”

Albert [57:12]: Right.

Brantley [57:13]: It’s kind of a weird thing to navigate. But I think we’re good now. The beginning was a little rocky, negotiating what the actual deal would be. But we’re at the phase now where we’re waiting to close.

Albert [57:24]: That’s amazing.

Brantley [57:25]: We close on December 31st—the last day of this year. Sign the papers, Dad retires, and Brantley starts the next chapter.

Albert [57:33]: I love it.

Brantley [57:34]: We’ve done a tremendous amount of work in the last 90 days on our business. We’re going through EOS again—Gino Wickman’s Traction.

Albert [57:41]: Yeah.

Brantley [57:42]: Got a leadership team assembled of five people and are just learning how to do the two-location thing, which is still new for us.

Brantley [57:48]: But the future is bright at Zeno Office Solutions. We have the best people. We’re all rowing in the right direction. We have the best customers.

Brantley [57:57]: I feel like the stars have aligned—not being overly optimistic because I know how fast things can change. But people are such a huge part of your business.

Albert [58:07]: Yeah.

Brantley [58:08]: So having the right ones, I sleep pretty good at night—even being a new entrepreneur who’s scared of a new phase.

Brantley [01:00:23.193]: Being now, I'm consciously incompetent again. It’s like, I know that I don’t know. I’m in it. But I’ve looked back at being in that phase two or three different times in this industry—through sales, then being a sales leader, and now running the company. It always worked out.

Brantley [01:00:39.493]: I’m looking forward to it. We’ve had a ton of success here in Lubbock already. We came in June last year, so I’ve been here just over a year. We’ve had so much success here and so much success in Midland. It’s just fun. I’m excited. I think the people are excited—I hope they are. They may not be, but I think they are.

Brantley [01:01:00.281]: It’s a fresh beginning, a new beginning. It’s a good time. A good time to be at Zeno, for sure.

Albert [01:01:06.521]: Yeah. That’s awesome. I love the continuing to put yourself in that uncomfortable, unknown space.

Albert [01:01:12.993]: That’s growth. That’s growth. Like, you have to keep doing that.

Albert [01:01:17.213]: All right, let’s do our fire round. We have a handful of questions. I haven’t prepped you for any of this.

Brantley [01:01:23.121]: I’m worried about that.

Albert [01:01:24.653]: All right, here we go. Just quick answers, off the top of your head. What’s your favorite movie?

Brantley [01:01:28.881]: Prefontaine.

Albert [01:01:30.615]: Dang. Really? Were you a runner?

Brantley [01:01:32.297]: Believe it or not, with this physique, yeah, I used to be a runner.

Albert [01:01:36.173]: Prefontaine. How did you know that movie?

Brantley [01:01:38.453]: My wife was a runner. We watched that.

Albert [01:01:40.293]: Oh my gosh.

Brantley [01:01:41.205]: Yeah. Prefontaine. Back in the day.

Albert [01:01:43.185]: Wow. Favorite book?

Brantley [01:01:45.689]: Oh my gosh, there’s so many good ones.

Albert [01:01:47.625]: You’ve spouted out a couple during this that I’m like, great.

Brantley [01:01:51.021]: Yeah, there’s just so many good ones.

Albert [01:01:53.461]: What’s the one you’d most gift to a business owner? Someone who’s about to buy their own business—what do they need to read?

Brantley [01:01:59.385]: Good to Great.

Albert [01:02:01.089]: Okay.

Brantley [01:02:02.169]: Leaders Eat Last.

Albert [01:02:03.329]: That’s a good one.

Brantley [01:02:04.353]: Is that Simon Sinek?

Albert [01:02:05.361]: Yeah.

Brantley [01:02:05.865]: Yeah, that’s a good one.

Albert [01:02:07.085]: Those are great.

Brantley [01:02:08.425]: There’s a lot. I have a library in my office. I wasn’t really a reader back in the day, but I’ve become a reader, oddly enough. So yeah, there’s a bunch of good ones.

Albert [01:02:17.345]: I love it. Okay, and then what’s a piece of business advice you hear all the time in your industry that you don’t agree with?

Brantley [01:02:25.113]: I’ve talked about this before, but people get so caught up in the revenue trap. Everybody’s always in the revenue trap.

Albert [01:02:31.449]: More revenue?

Brantley [01:02:32.217]: Well, that’s how they measure success.

Albert [01:02:34.241]: Got it.

Brantley [01:02:35.169]: “We’re a $20 million company. We’re a $50 million company. We’re a $100 million company.” It’s how people identify themselves—by revenue.

Albert [01:02:43.857]: Okay.

Brantley [01:02:44.217]: A lot of businesses do that. “Hey, we’re a $500 million company.” “We’ve got a $1.5 billion market cap.” Publicly traded companies say that a lot. Who cares? What did you make?

Albert [01:02:55.449]: Right.

Brantley [01:02:56.057]: Revenue is for vanity. Profit is for sanity. That’s my saying.

Albert [01:03:01.937]: I like that.

Brantley [01:03:02.817]: So it really doesn’t matter. Yes, revenue is great, but profit gives you flexibility. It allows you to grow. It allows you to give your employees better benefits, have nicer facilities, and get the best people.

Albert [01:03:14.745]: Yeah.

Brantley [01:03:15.489]: There’s so much that profit allows you to do. People just focus on revenue and ignore that.

Albert [01:03:20.961]: They call it the bottom line for a reason.

Brantley [01:03:22.993]: Yeah, when you sell your company, they’re not buying it off your revenue. They’re buying it off your profit.

Albert [01:03:28.305]: Right.

Brantley [01:03:29.049]: That’s what you walk away with. It should matter the most.

Albert [01:03:32.721]: I love it.

Brantley [01:03:33.441]: That’s always been my dad’s mindset—profit and being debt-free.

Albert [01:03:39.537]: Okay. How can people get in touch with you? How can people do business with you?

Brantley [01:03:45.825]: Great question. We’re launching a new website January 1st—www.zenotx.com. That’s Z-E-N-O-T-X dot com.

Albert [01:03:54.153]: Perfect.

Brantley [01:03:54.729]: You can call us, look us up on Google. People love our service. We’ve been working to get more Google reviews, and I think we’ve done a good job there.

Albert [01:04:03.537]: Awesome.

Brantley [01:04:04.329]: You can call our main number—432-550-9366. Or come see us at our Midland facility. People know where we’re at.

Albert [01:04:12.417]: Fantastic.

Brantley [01:04:13.113]: Thank you for having me, man.

Albert [01:04:14.697]: Thank you. You’re a good dude.

Brantley [01:04:15.825]: Appreciate it, man.